tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post3493571537870868345..comments2024-02-26T14:48:08.264+01:00Comments on Falk Lumo: Photokina 2010, Pentax and the full frame mysteryFalk Lumohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00476649880132648032noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-80883739575276088062011-03-22T05:18:14.074+01:002011-03-22T05:18:14.074+01:00I've been waiting for a full frame from Pentax...I've been waiting for a full frame from Pentax since I caught the bug for photography. I don't see enough reason to upgrade my Kx to another apsc if I still lose viewing degrees on my wide lenses. Iso and noise is an issue but sensor realestate is vital. Pentax please pull the trigger on this one, you won't regret it! I think there are many people ready to jump ship from other manufacturers, but they won't do it if they have to settle for a crop factor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-91385412961772995062011-02-09T20:23:21.742+01:002011-02-09T20:23:21.742+01:00@Anonymous: Yes, that's the generally mentione...@Anonymous: Yes, that's the generally mentioned reason for FF. However and I must have missed to explain in my article, it is NOT the relevant reason for FF. btw, technological progress in this domain would affect all sensors alike.<br /><br />No, the real reason for FF is that high resolution imaging becomes feasible which it isn't with APSC (due to lack of various accuracies like focus, anti shake, lens defect etc.). See what digital MF can deliver and you see what I mean. And digital MF has no low light advantage (yet).Falk Lumohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00476649880132648032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-79376485317204205792011-02-09T16:46:38.152+01:002011-02-09T16:46:38.152+01:00For me the biggest or maybe the only reason for FF...For me the biggest or maybe the only reason for FF is better low light performance. I believe with future generation imaging sensors the need for FF will always decrease and maybe will not be reasonable anymore. I feel this aspect was not considered in previous discussions. Some month ago it was announced promising sensor technology "Quantum film" from InVisage. It got also Wall Street Journal 2010 Technology Innovation Award in the semiconductors category. <br />http://www.sandrophoto.com/2010/03/22/quantumfilm-next-generation-camera-sensor/<br />http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2010/09/invisage-won-wall-street-journal-2010.html<br /><br />Yes it is not production- ready technology, but also FF to be avialable for wider enthusiast segment is probably far away, because of its price.<br />standorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-43411897553769941462010-11-21T11:08:56.623+01:002010-11-21T11:08:56.623+01:00If Pentax does not release a FF DSLR in 2011, they...If Pentax does not release a FF DSLR in 2011, they will become yet another failed Olympus. Wanting to be in the Pro-segement, but failing in seeing that BIG SENSORS IN SMALL CAMERAS IS THE FUTURE, not small sensors in big cameras.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-58156389819910892162010-10-02T01:51:05.526+02:002010-10-02T01:51:05.526+02:00Which ever is better, I hope it comes to video rec...Which ever is better, I hope it comes to video recording in a functional way for DSLR or SLD cameras. I want to record action at wide open aperture! :PAlexander Evensenhttp://www.arcticexposure.no/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-76496656761799607662010-10-02T00:03:03.699+02:002010-10-02T00:03:03.699+02:00@Alexander, offtopic yes. I am pretty confident (f...@Alexander, offtopic yes. I am pretty confident (from a physics point of view) that contrast AF (CAF) will beat phase AF (PAF) in the foreseeable future. PAF simply can use more light. Eventually, it is a question of algorithms and sensor read-out speed. IMHO, PAF is last century and more mature. But not the better approach. Yes, I know about the direction argument ...Falk Lumohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00476649880132648032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-34134773990144984062010-10-01T21:47:48.797+02:002010-10-01T21:47:48.797+02:00Kinda off topic, but I saw you mention contrast ba...Kinda off topic, but I saw you mention contrast based AF in a comment here.<br /><br />What do you think about the Fujifilm sensor that has phase detect AF built into it? A DSLR (or SLD) with that would be great IMO, AF for video and Live View as fast as for photography. Or being able to choose a slightly slower speed and not have such nervous AF action while filming.Alexander Evensenhttp://www.arcticexposure.no/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-9274862370192530702010-09-16T20:08:36.502+02:002010-09-16T20:08:36.502+02:00Will Frostmill, your plan is so cunning, you could...Will Frostmill, your plan is so cunning, you could stick a tail on it and call it a fox.Misererehttp://enticingthelight.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-64029542382669660012010-09-13T20:54:50.492+02:002010-09-13T20:54:50.492+02:00Falk Lumo,
Speaking not as a Pentaxian - I'm n...Falk Lumo,<br />Speaking not as a Pentaxian - I'm not one - I think Pentax might do something a little different. (Don't they always?) They may have a final user size target in mind of a Pentax MX, with a full frame sensor, but no mirror.<br />Why?<br />I think they are going to try a squeeze play against Nikon/Canon, and avoid competing with Sony. The top half is in place: the 645D is available for little enough that any pro shooting landscapes (for instance) is going to consider buying one instead of spending 5-7k on a DSLR. The bottom half is, as you said, selling a full frame camera for $1800. Nikon/Canon dare not drop the price of one of their flagship models that low - nor are they prepared to release a mirrorless full frame camera of that size at all. Nikon is quite likely to release a smaller-than-micro 4/3rds camera, and nobody knows what Canon has up it's sleeves. If Pentax went mirrorless _only_ with full frame, all kinds of pros who've added a micro 4/3rds camera to their bag now could have an almost as compact FF camera to work with along side. Pentax could use FF mirrorless to prevent people from buying anything else but Pentax lenses to use on their "other" mirrorless system. This would dry up the supply of used lenses, and drive the sales of new lenses immediately. Plus, people's lens collections would gain value immediately. A win for everyone.<br /><br />In any case, they could still sell their mirrored APS-C cameras, particularly the candy-colored ones, to new users. The "new" users today are in many cases moms wanting good low-light pictures of their kids at home, and fast-frame-rate pictures at their kid's sporting events. This pool of users may grow to become interested in the mirrorless FF cameras, particularly when they compare the "classic" smaller size with their "full size" APS-C cameras. Thus they don't have to solve the problem of fast framerates combined with fast autofocus immediately. Besides mirrored APS-C cameras have a big advantage for some kinds of reportage work, so there's no reason for those users to move away from it.Will Frostmillhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/frostmill/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-26770004698914835422010-09-06T22:16:40.943+02:002010-09-06T22:16:40.943+02:00Thanks for your time Falk.
More patents: ;-)
New...Thanks for your time Falk.<br /><br />More patents: ;-)<br /><br />New SDM?<br />http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100171391.pdf<br /><br />Anti-shake apparatus:<br />The present invention relates to an anti-shake apparatus for a photographing apparatus, and in particular to the movement of the movable unit to a position so that the shock caused by the impact between the movable unit and the point of contact which stops its movement is mitigated. <br />http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7764306.pdf<br />http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7760998.pdfKoldinghttp://www.pentaxeros.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-70041640722532744822010-08-31T18:45:02.212+02:002010-08-31T18:45:02.212+02:00@Kolding, that's easy. Just read the tables in...@Kolding, that's easy. Just read the tables in the patent. They list the focal length 'f' and image half angle 'W'. 2f tan(W) is the image circle and it is APSC.<br /><br />The difficult part is how you managed to post a comment here such that I received the notification but not the comment itself :)Falk Lumohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00476649880132648032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-72604173365520693612010-08-31T18:39:52.043+02:002010-08-31T18:39:52.043+02:00How I can know the format of the lens? (APS/FF)How I can know the format of the lens? (APS/FF)Koldinghttp://www.pentaxeros.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-16598578901619911882010-08-31T17:48:09.361+02:002010-08-31T17:48:09.361+02:00Well, the second patent is about the super zoom an...Well, the second patent is about the super zoom and old news.<br /><br />The first patent is strange. It describes a<br />DA 16-20mm f/4 APS-C zoom lens it I doubt it would be produced.<br /><br />The third patent is interesting. It describes an SR apparatus for the AF sensors in order to improve autofocus in low light. Did we just leak the new K-5 AF system? :)Falk Lumohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00476649880132648032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-77372739077944605032010-08-31T17:43:28.923+02:002010-08-31T17:43:28.923+02:00I got a notification that I received the following...I got a notification that I received the following blog comment but it doesn't show up here. So, I forward it here because I'd like to comment:<br />--<br />New Hoya patents:<br /><br />Wide-angle zoom lens:<br />http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100195219.pdf<br /><br />High zoom-ratio lens:<br />http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100195215.pdf<br /><br />New AF DSLR system?<br />http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100215352.pdf<br /><br /><br /><br />Posted by Kolding to Falk Lumo at August 31, 2010 3:27 PMFalk Lumohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00476649880132648032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-50453673084161712642010-08-31T15:27:54.315+02:002010-08-31T15:27:54.315+02:00New Hoya patents:
Wide-angle zoom lens:
http://ww...New Hoya patents:<br /><br />Wide-angle zoom lens:<br />http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100195219.pdf<br /><br />High zoom-ratio lens:<br />http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100195215.pdf<br /><br />New AF DSLR system?<br />http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100215352.pdfKoldinghttp://pentaxeros.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-23303571811335364362010-08-29T18:49:13.652+02:002010-08-29T18:49:13.652+02:00I do not want an FF camera from Pentax (for me). I...I do not want an FF camera from Pentax (for me). I do not need one. I am interested in capabilities, not in technical specs. If the low-light capability (high ISO) is considerably improved by whatever means, I am satisfied (and have invested in APS-C lenses from Pentax).<br /><br />But I *do* want Pentax to bring out one, as so many people seem to need it. And I'd like to see Pentax to be successful in the market, with a much larger market share.Joshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-89404175434629590462010-08-27T17:01:54.698+02:002010-08-27T17:01:54.698+02:00It's really pitty that Pentax didn't come ...It's really pitty that Pentax didn't come with an ff every year there are the same rumors and there is still none.<br />I was very happy with my K20D, but now i need to go working as profesional and need an ff pity that Pentax looses so many customers...<br />I totaly agree with Stephane!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-67849414855186440512010-08-17T15:42:44.686+02:002010-08-17T15:42:44.686+02:00Thanks for this article. I totally agree with the ...Thanks for this article. I totally agree with the need of having a FF roadmap for Pentax to not loose experimented photographers as clients.<br />Even if DSLR provide great images, if you want to turn pro, you will face two common reaction from your client :<br />- first, you don't have Nikon or Canon, the client is surprised and shows reluctance because Pentax is not any more seen as a pro brand for most of the people<br />-two, if the client is a little bit interested in photo, he will quickly see (know) that your camera is not FF and so imagine (in a wrong way) that you will not provide photos as good as if you were shooting with FF!<br /><br />It is hard to say, but here is the reality!<br />Working with a Pentax, it is like driving a Volkswagen with full option instead of a Basic Options Mercedes or BMW. <br />Better price vs options, same engine but do not have the same impact on the general public! <br /><br />I still love my Pentax Lenses but will have to move on if no FF is announced for 2011!<br />Plus the K-5* will not be a good point to resell my K-7 with a good price :o(<br /><br />See you and we cross the fingers<br /><br />Stephane from ParisStephanehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/mtt92/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-5764394900490241252010-08-17T01:47:03.116+02:002010-08-17T01:47:03.116+02:00This is a pretty poor article that sounds more lik...This is a pretty poor article that sounds more like reasons why the author wants a full frame body from Pentax rather than any real, solid reasons why it should be of any benefit to everyone else. I could easily sit here and discount most of the arguments made in favour of a full frame sensor, and most of the "facts" are dead wrong too. As someone who would be interested in a full frame body, I think this article actually hurts our cause more than anything else.GoremanXhttp://www.friendlyphotozone.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-22474983618556621262010-08-13T19:29:18.945+02:002010-08-13T19:29:18.945+02:00Well Falk, if you support K and M lenses fully, th...Well Falk, if you support K and M lenses fully, then you're supporting old 3rd party lenses too :-)<br /><br />There are plenty of optically great M lenses that I have not bought because I don't want to deal with the Green Button. I know me buying M lenses doesn't make Pentax any money, but having mountains of M lenses out there that can be bought at decent prices might very well entice people to buy an uncrippled body. And once they have the body they might (will!) be enticed into buying some nice new lenses for it.Misererehttp://enticingthelight.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-25730599361821244872010-08-13T17:45:53.316+02:002010-08-13T17:45:53.316+02:00Pentax has a strong "support legacy Pentax ge...Pentax has a strong "support legacy Pentax gear" and "don't support 3rd party legacy gear" policy.Falk Lumohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00476649880132648032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-76136480090625285712010-08-13T17:36:56.399+02:002010-08-13T17:36:56.399+02:00Jon brings up a good point regarding legacy glass....Jon brings up a good point regarding legacy glass. If there is one thing that would sway me towards a FF Pentax purchase (apart from better low light performance) it would be a camera with an uncrippled mount. The Nikon D700 has such a mount and allows its users to use rather old Nikkors with full automation (except AF in some cases).<br /><br />Pentax probably thinks that giving users with K and M lenses full automation (barring AF) is counterproductive to new lens sales, but on the other hand it encourages body sales. Like Jon said, if you're someone with a lot of high quality K and M lenses in the closet, you'd be much more inclined to purchase a FF Pentax if you got correct metering and access to all shooting modes, just like with an A lens. Once you have the camera and have used it with your old lenses, you'll start to think "I use this lens a lot and I'd like AF for the convenience, so I'm going to buy the DFA version." For example, if I purchased a FF Pentax I would buy it with the 43 Ltd, because that's my preferred "normal" lens. And if Pentax released a DFA 135mm f/2.8 I'd buy it too because I like it as a portrait lens. For other less used focal lengths I'd stick with my old M and A lenses, but Pentax would have retained me as a Pentaxian, which should be worth something :-)<br /><br />Jon wrote: <i>That tells me that there's still a very real, deep commitment at Pentax to its legacy lenses.</i><br /><br />Yes and no. I want to point out that A-like use of K and M lenses can be achieved via firmware, without need to physically change and decripple the current mount. If Pentax hasn't implemented this it's because they don't want to. This tells me their commitment is not deep, but shallow. Yes, it's better than most other brands (e.g. Sony users don't get image stabilisation with older 3rd party lenses while Pentaxians do) but it could be a lot better.<br /><br />If Pentax released a FF that allowed me to use P, Av, Tv and TAv with my old Vivitar lenses, I would buy it without hesitation. Does Pentax want to sell me a FF camera? We'll see...Misererehttp://enticingthelight.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-63785727998255130172010-08-12T21:47:40.071+02:002010-08-12T21:47:40.071+02:00Thank you so much for your comments - they're ...Thank you so much for your comments - they're most insightful.<br /><br />You're absolutely right, of course: the legacy-glass argument for FF could be counterproductive, if it suggests to Pentax that people may buy a FF body without making a commitment to purchasing new lenses for it.<br /><br />From my perspective, I see the release of a FF body as a way to make both old-lens and new-lens users happy. Look at it this way: old-lens users are also new-lens buyers. If I've migrated to Canon principally because the FF format allows me to use my old Pentax lenses without dealing with the crop factor, then the overwhelming likelihood is that any new lens purchases I make will be investments in the Canon system. So if Pentax's silence on the FF question induces me to take my old lenses elsewhere, then it loses not only a FF body purchase, but also any future new-lens purchases.<br /><br />So in this case, acting in a way that honors the brand's past would also help to protect the brand's future.<br /><br />(Honestly, the whole FF controversy sometimes strikes me as silly. If FF sensors had been technologically and financially viable when the first DSLRs were introduced, does anyone seriously believe there ever would have been an APS-C format? Now that the technology has evolved and the costs have dropped, it's time to move past what should always have been seen as a compromised stopgap system.)Jonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-77372554182971523362010-08-12T20:25:38.158+02:002010-08-12T20:25:38.158+02:00@Jon, yes, legacy glass Pentaxians would like to s...@Jon, yes, legacy glass Pentaxians would like to see a full frame Pentax. They typically ask for uncrippling the K mount too, a feature known as "blesator" in the German Pentax community. However, "blesator" is synonymous to a running joke now. And Pentax is not happy that legacy glass sells well while some newer DA glass does not. So, one must be cautious here or the argument turns against you.<br /><br />Therefore, I agree with you but for a slightly different reason:<br /><br />Pentax can have a unique selling point with respect to Olympus, Canon, Sony, even (to a lesser degree) Nikon: That Pentax acknowledges the investment done by any Pentaxian into glass, be it in the past or (and that's the important bit here!!) be it in the future. That Pentax will provide for the best possible protection of investment. As you say, such claim would be credible. But with just a couple of minor mistakes now, the credibility may be lost forever. Currently, the most credible player when it comes to protection of investment is Leica. And they are doing better than ever.<br /><br />A pro user has no problem to invest into expensive glass. It will pay off by the next couple projects. An enthusiast though can only invest into (expensive) glass if the future of the system is known. I am sure Pentax sees this simple logic at work already today!<br /><br />We are seeing a moment of change in digital photography: SLD mounts emerge and FF returns. Most refrain from expensive lens purchases in such a climate. Pentax can make a big splash by committing to preserve the value of investments into their lenses. However, this cannot work without committing to full frame in the long term.Falk Lumohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00476649880132648032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2599082310926453927.post-13446866354576897952010-08-12T17:07:09.477+02:002010-08-12T17:07:09.477+02:00Thank you. A very well-thought-out, well-written a...Thank you. A very well-thought-out, well-written and balanced presentation.<br /><br />I won't waste a lot of bandwidth on this comment, because I acknowledge at the outset that I speak for a very small percentage of what is already a small segment. But I want to own a Pentax FF DSLR for a very simple reason: so that my vintage/legacy lenses will revert to their "real" focal lengths. I want my 15/3.5 SMC to be a 15mm, not a 22.5mm. I want the experience of using a 35mm or a 40mm as a "wide normal" rather than a slightly-long normal. I want my 85mm portrait lenses to be portrait lenses again. (You get the point.)<br /><br />You may say, and with some justice, that this is a matter of concern only for the old-lens "fringe" group. Maybe so. But Pentax can't have its cake and eat it too. By that I mean: of all surviving consumer-level photo brands, Pentax has arguably been the most meaningfully dedicated to backwards compatibility. It remains a point of pride for Pentax that its latest DSLRs, with the addition of an inexpensive adapter, can still produce compelling images through the company's 40-year-old M42 lenses. Not only that: the adapter in question isn't some third-party kludge; it's Pentax-branded and Pentax-supported. And those lenses - without the headache of "chipping" individual adapters - will have the benefit of focus confirmation and image stabilization. That tells me that there's still a very real, deep commitment at Pentax to its legacy lenses. A FF DLSR would allow those lenses to be used as they were intended to be used. (And I'd be willing to bet that a FF Pentax DSLR wouldn't require a running list of legacy lenses that interfere with the mirror, as the 5DMkII does!)<br /><br />As I said at the outset, this is an insignificant concern compared with the demand for better high-ISO performance and video capabilities. But if Pentax doesn't offer some assurance that a FF camera is in the pipeline, it will be the reason this longtime Pentax loyalist ultimately abandons the brand in favor of Canon.Jonnoreply@blogger.com